GPS in CBU vehicle & GPS in Proton

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Grumpy
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Re: GPS in CBU vehicle & GPS in Proton

#51 Post by Grumpy » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:00 am

At the end of the day - you need to actually TEST the different GPS in the markets to form an opinion.
Perhaps the other person has only tested a plug and play GPS navigator - which is a mynavi and a garmin.

There are several more applications to this, inlcuding additional services that an GPS @ OEM CBU can provide that a simply plug and play cannot provide - which you can get a dime in a dozen from the accessory shops.

However these dealers are only interested in selling you the hardware and no after sales support. Why? Because the accessory shops get the units at dealer price around $800 and sell to the customers for $2000. If you had any brains, you can do the maths and work out why they always try to push you these expensive systems.

If you have been to China, you can see the huge influx of these plug and play devices flooding the market.

For example, the mynavy is simply a rehashed version of A800 that you can buy from China retail shops (walk into a electronic centre) and you can see they sell it for about RM$400. If you can buy it from a Chinese shop, hnow much do you think you can buy at OEM volume? Proton is selling it for over $1,000. How much "pocket change" are they keeping? The maps that can originally be bought from TeleAtlas (very big mapping company) is under RM$50. The current maps powered by Mynavi is by TM. A GPs navigator is a fun system to use, assuming the map is good (which mynavi does not). You still need to provide additional services for a sophisticated consumer, includes:
- 24 hours monitoring
- Custmer Service Hotline
- Team of technicians to be on standby to help you if you have problems
- Webmap
- SMS to your hp any alerts for any violations etc
- poll the position of the car (aka find the current position of your car).
- the GPs is hardwired to the car via fuel pump, doors and ignition
At $1,000-$2,000 I can do all that at a reputable accessory shop that will not rip me off in terms of margins etc. Of course, I know which are good accessory shops and which ones will good good price and installation.

At this price, the GPS systems that I have tested can do so much more than your useless mynavi. I have seen the TM map. It really is worthless, esp when I see all the other maps in the market.

When someone breaks into your car, what will you do with a GPs navigator? Nothing. Good luck getting it back if you use mynavi.The thief will either throw your mynavi out, use it to go to his hideout (assuming it doesn't give the wrong directions) or sell it to the dealer for $500. And Proton cars are damn easy to steal. The accessory shop owner showed me he can do it under 5 minutes in front of me.

Speaking from ignorance shows the level of your research into the matter and your understanding of GPS. For me, spending 3 weeks researching into this issue (to fight Proton) has given me the leverage for a refund for the mynavi GPS.

If you have any doubts - then you can always refer any complains to the head of the Proton Edar Dealer Association (PEDA). PEDA represents most of Proton dealers and their official stance is they hate mynavi due to the many customer complains and many customers refund ing it for $500. PEDA will write in officially to Proton on this, and also go to the press. I was referred to PEDA by specific people at Proton as I stated I wanted to lodge an official complaint. So far, PEDA has been extremely helpful and I have been extremely lucky to be educated on what is happening at Proton, which is basically policitics and "transfer pricing:".

So far - PEDA has more than 300 dealers. More than 200 dealers have officially written into Proton Head of Marketing Zahari to complain that the mynavi is a useless product and the customers don't want it and asking for 50% discounts. Most of the balance 100 delaers have already called in. This is according to PEDA.

You should do the same - if you are a genuine Proton mynavi customer. Walk into a PESB branch and ask if you can sell the mynavi back. See what the salesman says and if he will buy it back at $500. The salesman have had a lot of experience with angry customers so they know to expect to buy back at half the price.

Or you call PROTON i-CARE 1-300-880888 or EON Hotline 1-800-883003 to say that you want a refund and see what they say. The huge number of complaints against i-care on this mynavi issue has been at the top of their complaint list, such that the customer service officers say "Don't call us, just write in officially to the Proton MD".

These are two VERY SIMPLE tests to judge the authenticity of the market backlash against the GPS mynavi.

And you cannot challenge me in terms of GPS knowledge, so don't waste my time.

I may be an ordinary Malaysian car owner (although a senior engineer at a MNC logistics /fleet magament company), but I have done my research. Have you? Do you know what you are talking about before opening your mouth to someone more experienced and learned on the subject than you?
Last edited by Grumpy on Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:56 pm, edited 10 times in total.

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Re: GPS in CBU vehicle & GPS in Proton

#52 Post by sabre23t » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:34 am

Mmm ... Just noticed this thread. Missed it amongst the "General GPS Chat". I would have thought it'd be best placed in GPS Devices Discussions forums. But the nearest match there "Garmin Automotive" forum isn't exactly right.

Anyway, earlier in the thread mmxt seems to imply that our malsingmaps here is illegal and that Proton's MyNavi/TMs map is legal ...

I wondered whether he wants to state that more directly with legal reasonings. But it seems he only posted here only on that 27dec07. :-k
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Re: GPS in CBU vehicle & GPS in Proton

#53 Post by cruiser » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:39 am

:good: grumpy... excellent research on your part as we all gain diligence from your dare defiance to set tracks on record and this is certainly an area many can appreciate... WTG and you deserve not to be undermined by these sales and policies that don't figure sensibly.... members here will be cautioned in making their prudent decision from choices learnt through your findings!!! :thumbsup:

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Re: GPS in CBU vehicle & GPS in Proton

#54 Post by Grumpy » Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:30 pm

Dear Elite

your points / comments are duly noted.

However - it would be WISE for other more belligerent forum members to actually do some resarch and KNOW and know what they talk posting comments online without resarch or justifacation. In the end, these people only look the fool.

I know acsessory shops and I now GPS systems and other car parts.

If I say that Proton can only put in GPS in CBU vehicles and say that:
- pricing is an issue
- standby / dark current is an issue (ie. 20mA for total Proton vehicle). The better GPS have a sleep mode of less than 1mA
- after sales service with 24 hour monitoring and recovery
- which wires it will tap and if it will affect the CANBUS system
(Then these are statements of facts.). The same goes for all other car manufacturers.

Basically I have done my homework. Not so hard if one has any any brains and GOOGLE is at your finger tips, plus access to PEDA and their members and accessory shops.

If other members think they know better and think they can prove me wrong, then "empy vessels make the most noise". I welcome you to challenge with me with FACTS.

We should definitely continue this as a separate topic in in a more relevant area. Obviously not everyone in this forum is up to the sophistication level as expected, and putting in their worthless two cents into the picture is a waste of time.

They should stick to simpler topics, like POIs or the latest update to their Malsing software.

As per my previous post anyone is more than welcome to challenge my factual statements:
1) Walk into any Edar or EON branch and say you are unhappy with the mynavi and if they will buy it back from you at half the price @ $500. Then ask the salesman how many many customer are happy with mynavi and have complained to Proton and demanded refunds or sold back at $500..
2) Call Proton I-Care and complain about the mynavi GPs. See what they say to you on the phone. If they ask for the Proton MD, then ask the customer service officer for the name and address of the person you wish to complain to. Don't bother complaining via email, because Proton i-care sits on the reports and compiles it. There is no action setup after that,

That is - if you are not afraid of being proven wrong. Otherwise, you can stick your head into the sand like an ostrich.
Last edited by Grumpy on Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:18 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: GPS in CBU vehicle & GPS in Proton

#55 Post by Grumpy » Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:58 am

qwerty1976 wrote:
Well.... What can I say.

If you like the mynavi - then good for you.

I personally think it sucks.

Everyone have different opinions and different standards. Guess mine is higher than yours.
Sad isn't it ? For someone that don't exactly know how GPS functions proclaiming having higher standard than others.

And who was the 1st one who went off from the original topic ? (Read page 1 of this thread)
----------------------

Excuse me

My fleet mgmt (MNC) company (think DHL, FEDEX etc and you may have an idea what industry I work for) has been extensively testing GPS products.

We have tested Cobra, Fleetware, CAPTOR, Cybertower (what a joke), Compass Secure (which went bankrupt although they moved their sales and operational ppl to the holding company Silver Ridge), Astrata and E-Highway and a few other smaller GPS companies. We test the features and how they are installed into the trucks. We test the back-end systems to see what each product can and cannot do.

On Compass Secure and Fleetware they both get the exact same product from South Africa. They recently lost a big oil and gas company deal because of quality an supply problems. Walk into Compass Secure (opposite Eastin Hotel PJ) and see for yourself. Snigger, assuming they have staff working at Compass Secure these days.

A lot of the smaller GPS companies are only interested to sell their hardware and dont bother with after sales support. Also these GPS companies make a lot of noise at the start but can't make sales. Compass Secure for example, has made under 50 sales since Day One. No wonder they closed shop.

Mynavi is one prime example of a GPS hardware they sell you - but they have non-existent after sales support.

We also have one company Persona car that came with mynavi. Yes, I have tested it myself and it is useless. I know my DOPOD can do better. Even if it comes with Mapking or Malsing maps.

I I know MORE than you on GPS so don't talk to me like you are know anything.

Your sheer ignorance makes me laugh - because you are speaking from the short end of a stick.

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Re: GPS in CBU vehicle & GPS in Proton

#56 Post by qwerty1976 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:12 am

For example, the mynavy is simply a rehashed version of A800 that you can buy from China retail shops (walk into a electronic centre) and you can see they sell it for about RM$400. If you can buy it from a Chinese shop, hnow much do you think you can buy at OEM volume? Proton is selling it for over $1,000. How much "pocket change" are they keeping? The maps that can originally be bought from TeleAtlas (very big mapping company) is under RM$50.
Business is to make profit. There's are many businesses that make few hundred percent profit. Like what
I mentioned in other forum to you, accessories bundled by car manufacturer are usually more expensive. If everyone is making noise about every single accessory, car manufacturer might as well sell car assemblying manual and let the customer to buy their prefered brand of accessories.

When someone breaks into your car, what will you do with a GPs navigator? Nothing. Good luck getting it back if you use mynavi.The thief will either throw your mynavi out, use it to go to his hideout (assuming it doesn't give the wrong directions) or sell it to the dealer for $500. And Proton cars are damn easy to steal. The accessory shop owner showed me he can do it under 5 minutes in front of me.
This is getting out of place. What a GPS navigator got to do with car thief ? If you car got stolen, all you worry is your navigator instead of the car ? And I am wondering why you bought Proton car when it's easy to be stole.
You should do the same - if you are a genuine Proton mynavi customer. Walk into a PESB branch and ask if you can sell the mynavi back. See what the salesman says and if he will buy it back at $500. The salesman have had a lot of experience with angry customers so they know to expect to buy back at half the price.

Or you call PROTON i-CARE 1-300-880888 or EON Hotline 1-800-883003 to say that you want a refund and see what they say. The huge number of complaints against i-care on this mynavi issue has been at the top of their complaint list, such that the customer service officers say "Don't call us, just write in officially to the Proton MD".
Come on. Just because you don't like the navigator, you are influencing others to agree with you. I don't like the rim and the cheapo steering wheel in my persona, can I sell it back to proton ?

I may be an ordinary Malaysian car owner (although a senior engineer at a MNC logistics /fleet magament company), but I have done my research. Have you? Do you know what you are talking about before opening your mouth to someone more experienced and learned on the subject than you?

My fleet mgmt (MNC) company (think DHL, FEDEX etc and you may have an idea what industry I work for) has been extensively testing GPS products.
Then you should be ashame of yourself for not be able to operate a simple navigator.

We have tested Cobra, Fleetware, CAPTOR, Cybertower (what a joke), Compass Secure (which went bankrupt although they moved their sales and operational ppl to the holding company Silver Ridge), Astrata and E-Highway and a few other smaller GPS companies. We test the features and how they are installed into the trucks. We test the back-end systems to see what each product can and cannot do.

On Compass Secure and Fleetware they both get the exact same product from South Africa. They recently lost a big oil and gas company deal because of quality an supply problems. Walk into Compass Secure (opposite Eastin Hotel PJ) and see for yourself. Snigger, assuming they have staff working at Compass Secure these days.
As a senior engineer, you should be able to differenciate between GPS navigator and vehicle tracking system. Just because the vehicle tracking uses GPS doesn't mean it's the same thing. How can you compare it together ?

Mynavi is one prime example of a GPS hardware they sell you - but they have non-existent after sales support.


How ignorant. You don't know they got customer service number meh ? toll free somemore. I called before and they manage to answer my doubts on h/w, s/w and map. Can you do the same with your Dopod ?
We also have one company Persona car that came with mynavi. Yes, I have tested it myself and it is useless.
I thought you bought the persona and sold it back to Proton ? Why you need to test your company's set since you already find it useless ?

Dude, your statements are just contradicting with each other. How do you expect other people to believe in you ? And it just too much for a person that already got a refund to be so free to compare the products.

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Re: GPS in CBU vehicle & GPS in Proton

#57 Post by Grumpy » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:02 pm

Haha

Your comments are not worth answering.

You are clueless and are adding no value to this forum.

Go back to your forum section on POIs etc.

Yes we sold it back the Persona to Proton. The car is not up to standard and the GPS is useless.

If you are happy with yours, then you can stick to your inferior car and GPS products.

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Re: GPS in CBU vehicle & GPS in Proton

#58 Post by ajay » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:17 pm

cool down guys..

i hope i'm not adding to the arguement..we are here to learn from each other. who is to say we are better than the other. as an observer, you both got points but it's just a miss understanding between u two..i think

cheers
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ask what you can do for malsingmaps (also)

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Re: GPS in CBU vehicle & GPS in Proton

#59 Post by sabre23t » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:57 pm

ajay wrote:cool down guys [...] we are here to learn from each other.
Very good advice, ajay. O:) Do take heed Grumpy and qwerty1976. :-#
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Re: GPS in CBU vehicle & GPS in Proton

#60 Post by Grumpy » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:34 pm

Agreed.

Everyone has their own opinions, and I respect other people's opinions.

But I will not stand idly by and let other people attack my beliefs and opinions.

For me - this issue is closed because I respect his opinion.

For me - there is no misunderstanding.

But you are welcome to check the two comments I made before:
1) Walk into a Proton branch and see if they will buy the mynavi at half price
2) Call I-Care to complain and see what their reaction is.

Actions speak louder than words.

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