Church/Sikh Temple/Mosque Watch

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Re: Church Watch

#41 Post by SilverBeauty » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:41 am

Noah wrote:
Celebrate our similarities, not our differences. Politicians have always used religion to divide and rule so they may stay in power. Don't let them. Not this time and not ever.

Well said =D> =D> =D>

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Re: Church Watch

#42 Post by bartmp8 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:07 pm

Noah wrote:The only difference between Christian and Islam is the concept of God having a child. Should this concept be taken literally or metaphorically? Since we are all created by God aren't we all metaphorically His children?

Celebrate our similarities, not our differences. Politicians have always used religion to divide and rule so they may stay in power. Don't let them. Not this time and not ever.
The Western world went thru this "debate" around the turn of the century: Literal vs Contextual interpretation of the
Bible. Some will believe every word writte.n word for word (i.e. world was created in exactly 7 days as we now know,
Adam and Eve was 2 individual person) while some will see the 7 days as an immaterial time frame and Adam & Eve
was probable 2 tribes that came together and produced 2 more sub-tribes of Cain & Able etc.

We have to remember that for many many years, the bible was not written down in black and white.
It was past down from generation to generations over the camp fire - the Old Testament for example.
How do you explain the concept of God, Heaven, hell, Earth to a big group of illiterate? People who had
to work hand to mouth and probably have no time to sit there and hear some educated theologian rant on and on?
To get their attention, some marketing ploy had to be used - everyone loves to hear true stories but without
all the technical details that will bog down the plot. For example, if you were to talk about gravity, would you
use formulas and charts to explain in technical detail or would you use Sir Isaac Newton and his siesta under
the apple tree?

The Christian Trinity can be a very confusing concept for non-believers. Then again all religions are based on
on Faith (some blind faith) and this involves the believing in something without the need of physical evidence.
But what people need is some sense of reality and logic. If Jesus was to descend to earth 2000 years ago like
Scotty beam the Enterprise crew, I think he would have been pelted with rocks and general mayhem ensure.
Instead the so called "Chosen People" was slowly introduced to the idea that God wanted to save them, a
concept conditioning which took 32 years. That's where aspects like Mary and God's Son comes into play.
What greater gift then to receive God's Only Son who died for the sin of the world? Would it have the same
effect if Joe the Assistant Director of Sin Absorption were sent by God to do the same job instead?

Just told you a True story sans technical details. Exclusion of artistic interpretation not guaranteed.

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Re: Church Watch

#43 Post by bross » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:36 pm

naim wrote:Hahaha, where did he get wind of the L-Band?
Yes.. there is L-Band in GPS too..
huh very well GPS savvy as well Mr.Minister... twitch within Facebook and GPS thingy...

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Re: Church/Sikh Temple/Mosque Watch

#44 Post by Noah » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:05 am

Since the attack now includes Sikh Temples and Mosques/Suraus, we need to monitor these places for suspicious activities too.

This is why we need a secular government who is unbiased to any religion. Government servants may practice a certain faith, but when it comes to discharging their public duties they have to be religion agnostic.
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Re: Church/Sikh Temple/Mosque Watch

#45 Post by 255W » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:58 pm

Arson attacks: 7 more arrested in Taiping

Source: ... sec=nation
TAIPING: Police have arrested seven men over arson attempts on two churches and a school here on Jan 10.

Perak CPO Deputy Comm Datuk Zulkifli Abdullah said the seven, aged between 17 and 29, were picked up in four raids late Thursday night and early Friday.

Three of them were caught at a house in Kamunting while the rest were held in several areas here, he told a news conference at the Taiping district police headquarters.

“We believe their arrests can help resolve the arson attempts on two churches and a school on Jan 10,” he said, adding that the police had obtained an order to remand the men for six days from Friday to assist in the investigation.

Molotov cocktails were thrown at the All Saints Church in Jalan Taming Sari and the St Louis Catholic Church as well as the adjacent Taiping Convent Secondary School on Jan 10.

Zulkifli said two of the suspects held jobs, three were self-employed and two were unemployed.

He said none of them had any criminal record.

Preliminary investigation showed that the arson attempts were not prompted by any group or organisation, he claimed, adding that the suspects were a group of friends in the Kamunting area who had acted on their own.

The suspects were not members of any group or organisation, and had acted spontaneously in response to the High Court ruling allowing the use of the word “Allah” (God) by the Catholic weekly magazine, Herald, in its publications, he said.

“They were acts of mischief, a reaction to the issue in the media,” he said.

Zulkifli said the two churches did not suffer any damage but a glass window of the guard post at the school was slightly damaged.

The arson attempts on the two churches and the school were believed to have occurred between 3am and 4am on that day.

The school guard and the priests of the churches lodged police reports after learning of the incidents. -- Bernama

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Re: Church/Sikh Temple/Mosque Watch

#46 Post by 255W » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:23 pm

Source: ... sec=nation
Church arson suspects remanded for 2nd week
KUALA LUMPUR: The remand on eight men detained in connection with the arson attack at the Metro Tabernacle Church here on Jan 8, was extended to another week to Feb 2.

The suspects, aged between 21 and 26, were brought to the Jalan Duta Court Complex here Tuesday morning, where a deputy registrar of the magistrate's court allowed the application.

On Jan 20, Federal CID director Datuk Seri Mohd Bakri Mohd Zinin said the eight, including two brothers and their uncle, were remanded for a week.

The case is being investigated under Section 436 of the Penal Code which carries a maximum of 20-year imprisonment upon conviction. - Bernama

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Re: Church/Sikh Temple/Mosque Watch

#47 Post by 255W » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:33 am

Source: ... sec=nation
Two approaches to ‘Allah’ issue

Articles in the Wall Street Journal by Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak and Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim show their contrasting approaches and political styles.

DATUK Seri Anwar Ibrahim has been on the ceramah trail the past couple of weeks. The last time he was this busy was when making his comeback as Permatang Pauh MP more than a year ago.

His sodomy trial starts next Tuesday and all this political activity is a sort of pre-trial campaign to reach out to as wide an audience as he can.

The Opposition Leader’s oratory at these ceramah have assumed a certain pattern.

Apart from providing his take on the forthcoming trial, his chief target has been Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak, the man who stands in the way of his political ambitions.

The PKR leader has also been at pains to explain his party’s stand on the controversial “Allah” issue and at times, has come across as rather defensive especially when the audience is Malay and rural.

An overwhelming majority of Malay-Muslims are very uncomfortable with the High Court ruling in allowing the use of the word “Allah” in The Herald and Anwar has been grappling with the Malay-Muslim sentiment on the ground.

But his stand would go down well with the Western liberals who want to see Islam in a way convenient to them.

This came across quite clearly in the Wall Street Journal which published two articles yesterday on the issue – one by Najib and the other by Anwar.

Najib’s piece was titled, “Finding Unity in Diversity” while Anwar’s carried the heading, “Muslims have no Monopoly over ‘Allah’.”

The articles were quite a contrast, not only in content but in reflecting the priorities and political styles of the two men.

The Allah issue has become very political and at the same time very personal to the religious beliefs of the various communities.

Najib chose not to take the political argument. He pointed out that citizen action and spirit had prevailed in helping to maintain calm and peace following attacks on places of worship.

There is no denying Najib has been under a great deal of pressure over this issue and he admitted there are passionate views on many sides and that this was a complex issue that the Government was trying to resolve .

He spoke about the reform path that his administration would take and said Malaysia’s society and the economy could only be built on that which unites rather than which divides.

His message was not about blame or justification but about unity, building bridges and looking forward.

As he put it: “I am determined that the vandalism of the places of worship and arson at the Tabernacle (the church that suffered the most damage) and the powerful response from everyday Malaysians can be transformed into a moment from which we can learn.”

Anwar, in his article, offered a concerted argument why Muslim do not own the word Allah.

But the politician in Anwar dominated in his article and he pinned the blame for what had happened squarely on reckless politicians, the mainstream media and NGOs linked to Umno.

He accused these quarters of fermenting fear to divert attention from controversial court decisions and missing jet engines.

It was the written form of what he had been saying at many of his ceramah, a political attack on his chief nemesis Najib and the ruling coalition.

He went beyond the Allah issue and pronounced this country as going down the drain because of corruption, incompetence and religious extremism.

He said the vision of Malaysia as a peaceful and stable location was in peril.

Anwar, some fear, is about to launch a repeat what he had done back in 1998 when he came under siege for charges of corruption and sodomy.

He blamed Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad for his troubles and in his anger, he not only ran down the former Prime Minister but the system and the country on the international front.

Anwar, they say, should try to draw the line between his personal issues and his politics from that of the country’s interests.

There is no denying that race relations have been affected by what has happened. Malaysians of all races are concerned about the future.

Some are pessimistic, others more hopeful. But what everyone wants now are solutions rather than finger-pointing.

Everyone wants a peaceful and acceptable solution to the “Allah” issue and the politics of blame will not help.

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